For the past few weeks I have been text messaging back and forth with Nicole.
She was a sweet heart. We got along alright, and I can’t help but feel as if we missed out on something the night we went out. I think in the back of my mind it could have been more, had I let it.
So we arranged to meet this past Saturday. We both had prior commitments in the morning, her with her Grandmother, me with a client meeting over coffee. We agreed to text when free and then we would meet up at a local coffee shop. As promised she texted me around 4:30, but my heart wasn’t in it.
I sat on my bed, holding the glowing phone in my hand and knew I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t make the date. I’d been feeling restless all day long in anticipation, but it wasn’t the good kind of restless.
And so, with Brian watching confused from the shadows, I began to type my apologies. I wouldn’t be able to make our date. ‘I’m so sorry,’ I said. Knowing that if I couldn’t explain it to Brian there was no way I would ever be able to explain it to her.
Even now I can’t help but wonder… was this another opportunity missed? Or the moment one grows older and wiser?
From the moment I announced on my blog that Brian had given me permission to see women outside of the context of our marriage your voices rang in with advice. ‘Try to find a married woman,’ you cautioned already wisened over complex experiences I had never had. I remember thinking that would be the ideal, but how does one even go about FINDING a married woman to date? It seemed like a fool’s errand; an impossible mission. And so I barely tried.
But here’s the thing, as is so often the case, I think you were right.
When I met Carrie she was so full of promise. She said the right things and made me feel there was a world of possibility ahead. But she wasn’t the right fit for me. I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that we were worlds away from each other. We walked in with the same expectations, but we did not walk out with the same. I feel it would be unfair to repeat the same sad scenario with another single girl. Honestly, how does one date a married woman? If we could get in our minds that this wasn’t dating, but a friend with benefits. Perhaps it could happen. But it seems to me that even when that is agreed upon in the beginning, that is not what actually happens.
I got a text from Carrie the other day, it simply read : ‘Don’t be sad, I’m glad you were in my life.’
I’m glad too. Carrie was not what I expected, but I am still so grateful for the experiences and fun that I had with her. I will never regret the moments that I shared with her. But I can look back on the experiences I had with her with wizened eyes and know that there were many things I would do differently the second time around.
I thought I was being cautious when I met her. Brian and I sat down with Carrie and explained who we were and what we were looking for. All parties seemed to have understood and agreed. Brian and I did it as one. In honesty though, I wasn’t being cautious. She and I hit it off on Ok Cupid and that was all I seemed interested in seeing. If I had sat back, I would have seen her immature streak. I would have felt the warning signs. But I was inexperienced and so ready to get out into the world and experience what I had only been thinking about for an eternity. I was ready. I was blind.
Next time, however, I think I’ll limit my possibilities for failure.
I’ve decided to start my search for someone in a similar situation to myself: married but permission to play.
This way the expectations are the same right off the bat. We both have husbands that we do not plan to leave. We both have a need those husbands cannot fulfill.
I believe this will also make things better for Brian. He has been so amazing throughout the whole thing. He has been my friend and my strength and has accepted everything with grace, but I do know it bothers him. Even if it is just on a subconscious level. He has wanted this experiment with women to help me, and so help our marriage so much so that he has been unwilling to voice objections. Even if objections were founded. I think sometimes he feels that saying “no” will drive me away permanently, when this really isn’t the case. Marriage is full of yes’s and no’s. Of permissions and compromises.
So instead of another Carrie, I’m looking forward to a grounded ‘M’. I don’t know how to begin this search really, except for changing my OkCupid profile to stating “searching for married women ONLY”… so if any of you have advice on the subject, I’m all ears!!
I choose to look forward to a great relationship. To new adventures. To MIND BLOWING sex.
I knew in the very beginning that it wouldn’t be easy having an open relationship, but I know that it will be worth it in the end.
You need to read this: http://www.sugarbutch.net/. For the last week or so, she’s had mini interviews with MULTIPLE people about open relationships. Also, go back in her blog and read a lot. A lot of it is on gender and bdsm, but there’s also a lot about love, open relationships, and more. She’s not married, but is partnered with a femme and the advice is great. You’ll see.
Also, if you haven’t already, read The Ethical Slut: A Practical Guide to Polyamory, Open Relationships & Other Adventures. It’s been years since I read it, but it’s pretty much the bible for all of this.
I can’t tell you how to work things with your marriage and relationships, because I’ve never been married or anything close to it, but I have to ask you this – what exactly do you WANT from these relationships? Is it just sex and companionship? Or is it love and a full relationship. If you weren’t married, what would you want? Because that’s going to become an issue if you’re not sure. It seems it was a confusion with the sexy woman and with Carrie.
That whole married thing does get quite sticky no matter how well you formulate the rules because there are a lot of complicated needs and desires and emotions in the mix. That’s why I said to read that book. I hope it helps.
I JUST finished that book! (the Ethical Slut) it was a great read and very helpful, I highly recommend it as well!
~L
Thanks Lisa, I’m glad that you found it helpful. I just downloaded it to my iPad so I’ve started the read.
Does she call us ‘sluts’ the entire way through the book?? lol.
Were I a psychic, I would tell you I have a lot of reading in my future. As always WWG you are a wealth of knowledge! Thank you!
I have read a little on the sugar butch website. There was an interview I read a few weeks ago from someone in an open relationship discussing jealousy. I thought it was quite good. I did not however realize there was a slew of interviews and other resources within her blog. Apparently I was not a curious enough cat.
I will also look into the book you mentioned. A bible to open relationships sounds like it would be a tremendous help! And them I’ll make Brian read it!!!
Hey, we’re in this together, right?
Heather recently posted..Husbands vs. Girlfriends. Open Relationships are a lot of work!
You are so welcome Heather. I hope both help you with this. I understand it’s a hard road to walk so maybe they’ll give you some guidance and answers of how to do it best.
Heather, I have so many things to say on this topic!! I’m gonna try to keep this comment to one topic, though, and make more comments later.
I think it’s great that you’re going to try to find a married woman. Just give yourself room to continue to experiment and learn from your experiences. You might find a married woman and then decide that’s not the right path for you. Or you may find a married woman and find that’s the right path, but she’s not the ONE.
I have not been with any single women so I can’t compare or speak to that. However, I have been with married women.
I’ve been with a married woman whose husband did not know she was bi & did not know she was non-monogamous. This was not a sexual relationship but it was a very emotional one. I learned two things: (1) bitch was crazy and (2) that difference in our situations was too much to overcome (her not telling her husband and me being open with my husband). She was trying to get me to conform to her world & her rules, and it would have been disastrous for mine.
I’ve been with married women just like me, meaning their husbands knew and were OK with it. There are soooo many issues involved though. You’re managing relationships among four people and that’s just fucking hard! You’re managing dating again, and that can be exhilarating and deflating and draining and all three all at once! For me, I struggle with balancing my desire to be with a woman sexually (and since it’s still newish, I want it all.the.time and then some) with wanting to make sure to not disturb the other couples’ relationship and to nurture my relationship with my husband.
My point is: prepare for the road to still be bumpy and difficult at times. I’m not trying to be a Debbie downer, I’m really excited for you to go down this road and to see you be successful. I just want to say that trying to have a relationship with another married woman is hard.
I’ve yet to find that perfect relationship that works for all parties involved. I’m currently working on it but I’ve not found a comfortable place yet. Sometimes I think I never will, other days I have lots of hope. And through all of my experiences, I’ve changed what I think I want at least three times. So, as I said earlier, give yourself space to experiment and figure it out.
How does one go about finding a married woman though? Sometimes I’m a little lost on how to go about this stuff.
I am hoping that being with a married woman will be the right fit for me. I think in a lot of ways it will make life easier for Brian. He will know, unequivocally that I am not going to leave him for another married woman. Whereas with a single woman, I think sometimes that question is more prevalent in the back of his mind. After all, if things got serious, wouldn’t that be what the single woman would want. Would she ask that of me?
There are always so many things to consider when you open up your relationship. And you are right trying to balance 4 people’s relationships does sound hard. But hopefully the rewards will make all of that work worthwhile. *fingers crossed*
(sorry that your first experience with a married woman was with a crazy bitch… honestly, mine wasn’t so fun either… what is with the crazies?? How do we find sane married women to play with?!?!)
Yep, this is the other topic (meeting other married bisexual women) that I wanted to share thoughts on & I’m hoping we hear from others.
My experience isn’t going to be completely relevant to you for several reasons, the main two reasons being that I am not out and I’ve evolved to a situation where it’s a couples activity for me. I will share some thoughts though that I hope will be useful…or at least entertaining!
Since I’m not out the chances of me meeting someone in real life are slim, so my method is all Internet based. One caveat: I do think I put off a bit of a i-like-girls vibe & because a few close friends who live in another state know I’m bi, I’ve been hit on by some of their friends when visiting. Promise I’m not bragging (much) but I think since you are inclined to put yourself out there, perhaps some friends of friends who are in a marital situation like yours will emerge??
Online:
Shybi is a sticky wicket but worth investigating. It’s not a dating site, it’s a forum to talk about coming out as bi or lesbian and has a whole section devoted to those who are married to men. While it’s not a dating site, matches are clearly made from time to time & it’s also a good way to find others near your location who are in the same situation, even if just for conversation. Like many communities it can be cliquey at times and there are some ladies on there just looking for trading pics & talking naughty (not that there’s anything wrong with that!!!).
Dating sites: I can’t remember the name of them all but I know you’re familiar with this method. Remember you can describe your situation and what you’re looking for even on a singles lesbian site….others like you are probably looking there too. I always feel like there has to be women like us but there aren’t specific sites just for us. For example, I am not a swinger but I’m also not looking for a completely separate relationship — there are not sites for me but there are sites dedicated to swingers and to single lesbians. At various times in my journey i’ve had profiles on both of these types of sites & I was honest and as clear as possible about my intentions. I met women in similar situations on each type of site. It wasn’t a windfall of women and it took a lot of sifting through people not being completely honest … but they are there!
Now if I could solve the crazy conundrum …. lol
Honestly I haven’t got to the stage of meeting in person with too many crazies. When I’ve worked through gettng to know someone, the biggest obstacles have been general personality matching, finding enough time in schedules to get together often enough to build a relationship, and whether they are really looking for what I’ve said I’m after (ie, I don’t want to swap & won’t change my mind and I don’t want to have a relationship behind my husband’s back or behind their husband’s back).
All of this takes patience, which I severely lack when it comes to exploring sexually with a woman!!
“I don’t want to swap & won’t change my mind ….” Hahahahahaha… I love it. It’s sad how many people are out there that believe you will change your mind once given a little time.
If I was open to exploring that, I would say so. Pressuring me into it isn’t going to make me into it! ugh…
Anyway..
I think a lot of this was really great advice. I am out to pretty much everyone, but I do want to be discreet about the things I do in my own town. I do NOT want people to label Brian and I as swingers. That would be just so much fun. -_- So a lot of what I am doing is behind closed doors too. (at least as far as my neighbourhood is concerned) I believe a lot of the searching I do will be online as well. So this was really great advice.
I’ve been to shybi a few times but never really had any luck there. As you said it does seem to be cliquey. The other problem? I found them to be quite judgemental. At least of me. I introduced myself as someone who was married to a man but considered myself to be a lesbian. They jumped down my throat with semantics. I can’t be a lesbian if I am still married to a man. Clearly, I am bi. And if I am not bi and want to call myself a lesbian than I should leave my husband… It was confusing to me when so many people on the website had a similar story to mine and yet they were jumping down my throat based on the label I embraced. We all embrace different titles, can’t we just live and let live? If lesbian feels the most comfortable to me, who are you to say that I am wrong?
So I stopped visiting. I am, however, glad that it is working out for you. It could just be the people in my AREA that had a totem up their asses… or maybe I visited at the wrong time of the month.. lol.
I’ve visited a couple of dating sites now too and have updated my profile stating as honestly and clearly as I can what I am looking for. I know that it will not be an easy thing to find, but I am trying… and I am hoping that there are other women out there as well who are trying too. *fingers crossed that we all find what we are looking for…*
As for friends of friends flirting with you… you should brag! What was it you said to me… OWN THAT GIRL!!
Lol, I love that you remembered my advice and gave it to ME — very appropriate!
I have to say it is wildly hot to get hit on like that … sorta like your vacation experience but without the sexy midnight dip in the pool and the orgasmic finger-banging!
Hmmmm…let’s all pause to relive that Heather moment!
I’m sorry you had that experience with shybi but not completely surprised. I’ve had some not-so-great experiences there but I have also traded emails with some great women who made me feel less alone in this journey. I haven’t been there for 6 months but I don’t rule out dropping back in from time-to-time.
I guess that was part of the problem, I had a bad experience and then had trouble getting into the website. I don’t deny that it looked like it had some great stuff on it. And it seemed to be working for many people. That’s great! If it works for some… awesome! I’ve dropped in from time to time just to read posts more than anything, but haven’t really felt pulled to write anything. Or to start up a chat. Maybe sometime. We’ll see. I haven’t written it off just yet.
Thanks again for all of the advice… I definitely feel like I have some work to do…
“I’ve been to shybi a few times but never really had any luck there. As you said it does seem to be cliquey. The other problem? I found them to be quite judgemental. At least of me. I introduced myself as someone who was married to a man but considered myself to be a lesbian. They jumped down my throat with semantics. I can’t be a lesbian if I am still married to a man. Clearly, I am bi. And if I am not bi and want to call myself a lesbian than I should leave my husband… It was confusing to me when so many people on the website had a similar story to mine and yet they were jumping down my throat based on the label I embraced. We all embrace different titles, can’t we just live and let live? If lesbian feels the most comfortable to me, who are you to say that I am wrong?”
I’m curious about this, as I know there are TONS of women in there in the same situation. My girlfriend included.
There is one person in particular who I can picture saying things like that, but overall, I think the women on there should be understanding of it and am quite surprised they weren’t. Sorry you had to go through that!
Mel recently posted..Dealing with Depression
Perhaps I hit the wrong people at the wrong time.
I know it is not everyone on shybi… just a few to colour my experience, unfortunately. I’m not opposed to trying again. Just figured I would give it awhile.
I need to hang out in the same circles as your girlfriend, clearly!
I have been sooooo out of the loop. And I’ve only just seen this comment. I do find it so weird that you would have had that experience, as it’s hard for me being on there anymore because EVERYONE seems to be married. Sigh.
I’m going to try to get back to blogging. And one of these days I’m going to have a sit down marathon and catch up on yours again. xx
im in the same situation as you! im kind of at a loss as how to find a committed, married woman to play with! think i’ll give shybi a try! lol
alice recently posted..How to Save a Life
If I come up with any good ideas,… I’ll be sure to let you know! Promise.